Creating Safe Spaces (Part 2)

Last week, we started scratching the surface on the topic of safe spaces. If you missed out, rewind to catch up, because today, we're going even deeper.

Ever wonder why men often retreat into silence rather than share their feelings? How do past behaviors influence the way men communicate and express themselves? What boundaries should never be crossed and why? We're exploring these questions and more!

Join us as we discuss the risks and rewards of emotional openness. We expose how societal expectations and negative reactions can prompt men to close off, impacting their self-esteem and roles within their relationships. We navigate through the delicate interplay of respect and expression, scrutinizing how both partners’ behaviors affect the emotional ecosystem and the importance of ongoing dialogue for a thriving bond.

And stay tuned - next week, we're shifting the focus to the challenges that women encounter when carving out their own safe spaces, making this a truly comprehensive exploration that will encourage both parties to support one another in the most appropriate ways.

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Chapters

• 0:09 Creating Safe Relationships With Effective Communication
• 9:50 Emotional Vulnerability in Relationships
• 17:13 Building Safe Spaces for Vulnerability
• 30:11 Safe Spaces for Women

Transcript

Ruth: 0:09

Welcome to the Noirpoised Podcast, where wisdom is power is more than just a motto.

Sam: 0:14

It's our way of life. While we don't claim to have all the answers, we're dedicated to delving deeper into different topics through meaningful conversations. As a duo, we bring different viewpoints to the table, enriching our joint journey towards growth and poise.

Ruth: 0:30

Join us as we explore and unlearn to relearn, while striving to navigate life with poise.

Ruth: 0:45

Last week we began the conversation on how to create safe spaces and we focused a lot on the male's perspective, but there was so much to unpack that we felt like we had to continue and create a part two, still focusing on men and touching on how we can continue creating safe spaces for them. So if you didn't hear last week's episode, pause this one, go back to last week's episode, listen to that and then come back. But to get back to creating a safe space for your spouse, I think it's also important to consider boundaries and understanding when you're overstepping boundaries and that sometimes there's learned behavior from our past or how we were brought up that may be different from the spouse, that may come off as aggressive or offensive or judgmental, that may lead to your spouse not being able to express themselves. So generalize for men. Do you think it's a situation where they've tried expressing themselves? They didn't like the response that they had and they kind of just learned from that and they tell themselves not doing this again? Do you think that's what it?

Sam: 2:03

is yeah, I think that sounds about right. If you express yourself and you don't feel well received whether that's the person doesn't show the right emotions or try to counteract what you're saying with something else, you're naturally not going to want to do it again because you could have everything else going wrong in your life.

Sam: 2:25

For a man, if you have your ego intact, there's still hope for a better future. You still feel good about yourself. But if you find yourself where you see several things in your life going wrong and now your ego is being diminished, I think that's enough to make any man never share anything, ever again.

Ruth: 2:42

Okay. So that's what I was thinking about, because there are certain behaviors that are learned throughout the past and, obviously, just like men may have learned behaviors, women have learned behaviors. So I've seen certain instances where a man shuts down because he didn't like the reaction or response that he got from his significant other. While I understand and I agree, because I probably do the same if that was what happened to me with someone but speaking in the sense of marriages in mind or relationships in mind this is someone that you're spending your life with, so don't you think it's important to keep trying not necessarily just keep trying, but having conversations to express that to the person so they know where they went wrong, and it's not a situation where you're just shutting down because you didn't like the reaction.

Sam: 3:35

I'm not saying this is not the correct way, but you can be a successful or good husband and father and not need to share anything. That's crazy, as that sounds like I see by your face you're disagreeing, because I think you're disagreeing in a sense of it's always going to come out. If a man or husband and father is feeling a type of way and he tries to hide it, it's eventually going to come out. It may eventually trinkle out a little bit In a man's mind. His job is to provide and protect, not feel good about himself.

Sam: 4:08

So if I found myself in a situation where I'm expressing myself to you, that I'm feeling frustrated or whatever it may be, and you're not creating a safe space for me, my natural thought would be okay, do you need to find another outlet where you can relieve yourself? Whether that's sports boxing, whether that's hanging out with guy friends, you know, even if it could be something negative, that's going to be my outlet. I know that if I could go to the gym twice a week, I'm going to feel a lot better and I won't have to go back to you and express myself with the risk of getting Hurt again, and I know that I can still be there for you, I can still have date nights, I can still give you my undivided attention, I can still give my kids my undivided attention, but I'm not getting that back. It's kind of like I would compare it actually to motherhood, where motherhood is. It's hard, of course, but it's satisfying, not because you're necessarily getting something back, but you're pouring in. And I think men have or married men or men in relationships have the same mentality where this relationship is Working, not necessarily because I'm getting something out of it for myself, but if I care about this person and I'm doing the right things to pour into that person or provide that person whatever they need, whether that's time, attention, resources, whatever it means then I'm a good husband, I'm a good father. I may be suffering inside, but I'm still completing those two goals. I actually think that's something society taught you. It could be, but it is what the current status is.

Sam: 5:43

I'm just expressing the, the mindset that a man, right, typically has, where if I'm doing my job, I'm doing my job, that's it, and Fortunately, but unfortunately, everything that a man does he thinks kind of like a job, a task that needs to be complete. So, just like you know me, I don't really get emotionally involved with the work, mm-hmm. So even if I'm in a situation where work gets draining, I don't go to my job and say my manager or whoever and say you know what, this is, what you could do to make it easier for me. I just say I'm just gonna play smart if I notice that every time I, you know, volunteer for a project, I'm getting hit with three projects I'm just gonna stop volunteering, but I'm still going to do what's required of me.

Sam: 6:27

And I think it's the same way with with relationships. I've heard a this is from a sitcom where a guy was unhappy in a relationship but he was afraid to break up with his partner and he said I would rather die in a happy relationship, then possibly say something to hurt her or to Disappoint her. And although it was said as a joke in a comedy show, I think it speaks a lot of truth to how not all, but many to most men feel where if I know that I'm Expressing myself to you and it's not being well received, if I'm continuously doing it, it's going to end up becoming a problem in a relationship, then I'm just not gonna do it. You see what I'm saying.

Ruth: 7:10

No, I that last sentence. Yes, I see what you're saying, but everything you said before that I was like I understand where you're coming from. Do I agree with it? No, I don't agree with it again. I think society has taught you that, or has taught men that, to have that mindset that you can still do a good job as a father and husband by just providing and protecting. Those are very large aspects of the role, just as for the woman, it's nurturing and supporting right and being the backbone. You can do that, but I love that you compared it to motherhood, because with motherhood you can, yes, you're pouring and pouring and pouring and pouring, but if you don't find ways to pour back into you, you then will not Mother appropriately for that child.

Sam: 7:55

But that's what I'm saying with the outlets of going to the gym hanging out with other male counterparts or Even if it's something negative like that's a guy's typical way of finding that that outlet Mm-hmm. So guys who do this just made a conscious decision that I'm not going to get Emotionally what I need from this relationship. I still love my partner, I still want to be with my partner, but I'm just not getting what I need. I'm just going to try to substitute with the other things over there when I can get my aggression out in the gym, etc.

Ruth: 8:28

I see what you're saying. You don't think that's Kind of contradicting? No, in what way? So I'm thinking of it as you kind of didn't continue to fight the battle almost and we said it in the beginning of the episode where a lot of times vulnerability is viewed as a weakness right, and men want to be viewed as strong. But we also learned in the previous episode that vulnerability is actually a strength. It shows courage.

Ruth: 8:55

So, naturally, hearing everything that you're saying not saying that that's not the case, because at the end of the day, it's what men feel. So I'm not saying that's not what it is, but to play devil's advocate, don't you feel it's almost cowardly to avoid going through the hard times to get to a place where you can get a safe space from your significant other by working through it, consistent conversation, and of course it's a two-way street. I'm not talking in the event that the woman is just like toxic. I'm talking about a relationship where both parties are willing to put in work. But my original question to you was is it a situation where men try once or twice and they're just like nah, I don't like the reaction, I'm going to just avoid this altogether, avoiding it altogether. You don't think that's a little bit cowardly?

Sam: 9:48

No, not at all. I like that you use the word battle there, because like you're saying says we may lose the battle, but we want the war. The war is to make sure this marriage or relationship goes on until, like I say, death do us a part. That's the war. And if I know that I'm not being fulfilled emotionally but my partner is able to come to me and say this is what I feel and I can provide a safe space for her and it's just not reciprocated, then that may be losing the battle but that's winning the war. That's what the mindset would be.

Ruth: 10:23

That's why I disagree, because relationship is a two way street.

Sam: 10:26

I agree it is ideal for both parties to be able to express themselves, but, as I mentioned, unfortunately that's not the reality society has painted. So you have men out there who would love to express themselves. You know love to be vulnerable, but how many times are you going to expect the man to open himself up, to expose himself and be rejected? I think that's the question that I would love for you to answer, like when is the cutoff point in your opinion?

Ruth: 10:55

What I was trying to say is not necessarily how many times, it's more so working through it. So, for example, if you express a level of frustration for the first time, like let's just, I mean, hopefully this never happened to us. But let's say you, you mentioned that you're frustrated about a particular thing and in the process of doing so you cry. And my response is are you really crying about that? Obviously that's going to offend you. I'm judging you. I'm almost embarrassing you. In a way, I'm crushing your ego. Right Now. In a situation like that, I comprehend why a man wouldn't want to put himself in that position to be attacked again. But what I'm trying to say is, the same way Creating a space for a spouse, you have to have grace on them. The other person who's expecting to have a safe space also needs to have grace on that person as well. But when I mentioned earlier that we often have reactions based on learned behavior, whether that's due to trauma or any past experience, a lot of our behaviors are taught or learned through society. So the same way you're mentioning all of this how men may feel and it's due to what society has implanted into them. The same has been done for the opposite gender. So what I'm saying is, in a situation where that occurred, I would hope that the man wouldn't just say, nah, I ain't like the way she responded to that. I'm never going to put myself in that position again. I would hope that it would be a situation where he can have a conversation with his spouse, not being vulnerable to cry again right away, because you're human. That's going to take time, now that you've gotten that reaction, but having a conversation and letting her know what her reaction did. So, as a spouse who loves you and wants to grow with you any spouse who loves you and want to grow with you she's not going to continually have that type of reaction after you express what you felt about it and how it scarred you. That's what I mean. So, in a situation like that, if he's not even willing to put in the effort to have a conversation with her, or more than one conversation with her, to help her understand how it hurt him and to have grace on her, because she may not know any better but learning and growing together, so I'm helping you create a safe space for me while you are doing the work to also create a safe space for me. That's how I see it. So when I think of safe spaces and that's why I keep saying it's a two way street this is my opinion.

Ruth: 13:29

I don't think a marriage or relationship will be successful if it's one way, even if the other person is seeking other outlets to release whatever it is, be in a relationship with that person or that thing. I do believe that vulnerability and being able to have somewhat of a safe space within a relationship is a necessity. If you can't do that with your person, they're low key, not your person Just because you're in a relationship with them or just because you guys been married for how many ever years? Clearly this is a struggle that you haven't won. That's how I see it.

Ruth: 14:03

I think it's really important that both parties put in the work on themselves and on each other to get to a space where they can be vulnerable. Now, that may take time, depending on the person, depending on their history, depending on how much they've been brainwashed, depending on their level of comprehension, depending on their ego, but at the end of the day, I think that's the purpose of being in a relationship with someone where you can have that safe space. You're constantly working on it. It's not a oh, it didn't work. These couple of times I'm done. I understand why someone would do that, but again it goes back to you've allowed that fear to gain control in your relationship. That's how I see it.

Sam: 14:47

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I also want you to understand, and all the ladies out there who are listening to understand, that it's easier for a woman to bounce back, in my opinion, from emotional stress. I think that's why it's a lot easier for you all to talk about it and seek help. We've seen it so many times before whenever there's a book on relationship event, it's mostly women dragging their men, because women are always trying to do that work to grow emotionally. They're definitely built for that in a better way. But I do believe that what you mentioned as far as a guy trying more and not just giving up after once, twice, a few times, I think the problem with that is the guy runs the risk of losing himself completely If he continues to try and the results don't change. Because I personally believe that while they say men lead, I think women are the drivers for society and I say this all the time that women set the standard in relationships. If a woman wants to do something, it's going to get done, but if a man wants to do something, it's not easy to convince the woman to go that same direction, and I think that's the main problem where guys have trouble knowing when to do exactly what you're referring to as far as going and persisting on. No, let's talk about this. This is what I'm feeling, and I'm feeling like you're rejecting me and guys saying to themselves you know what? I think I'm just going to leave it alone, because if a man's emotional intelligence is at 89, but his partner's emotional intelligence at 75, he's eventually going to have to come back down until she's ready to come back up, whereas I feel that if it was vice versa, if the female is at 89, the guy that's 75, she is able to bring him up, and I think, unfortunately, that's what a lot of men go through is. Yeah, I'm expressing, and it's not just I'm expressing, I'm putting myself out there and I'm consistently being humiliated. So now I could get angry or I could just let it go, and I think that's exactly what I'm saying where, unfortunately, I think it's easier. I want to say just straight up women on mean, but I think it's easier for women to bring up men to their emotional standards versus vice versa, and I think society has just reflected that. Your statement about you know, men giving up what a man would think is OK.

Sam: 17:18

I tried to express myself about this specific topic, she rejected me. There's other things that she does that I love, that I've expressed, and she's taken that to consideration. This is just not one of those things, and, although it's important to me, I just have to learn to pick my battles and know when to move on. That's what I'm saying is it's not necessarily a man are giving up on the relationship they just have an understanding of. Is it probable that this will change? If the answer is no, then move on. If the answer is yes, then when you put it that, way.

Ruth: 17:50

When you're saying that it's just a particular thing Rather than a generalized issue, because I was thinking of it as a generalized issue where the man feels like he cannot be vulnerable With his significant other, in that case that doesn't make sense to me. But if you're saying it's a particular thing because relationships improve over time if the work is being put right, so it may be a situation now, like you said, where it's not something that's gonna change right now. I'm gonna put it to the side and later down the line Maybe it just naturally does. But what I originally thought was you were saying In a general aspect that he can't be Vulnerable with her. She doesn't provide a safe space Generally for him to be vulnerable.

Ruth: 18:33

But if it's one particular thing, not saying that, it's okay, but it takes time. Again, there's learned behavior that needs to be unlearned, because I know there's a lot of learned behavior that I have that needs to be Unlearned and that takes time, that takes work, that takes self-reflection, and again it's two-way street. It can't just be oh, I'm just gonna do this because this is what he wants.

Sam: 18:58

But sometimes you have to self-reflect and recognize what are some Toxic behaviors or habits that you have that may be triggering to him and I would just like to add that in a man's mind, even if it's not a general problem, the specifics will end up affecting the general.

Sam: 19:14

Explain so let's say the specific in our situation is Something to do with finances. Well, wherever I come to you about financial stress, I feel like it's not well received or whatever the case is. But whenever I come to you Discussing my family, you're very open to that. Eventually, if I become really stressed with finances, it's going to affect how I even speak to you about my family, because everything's just going to tie in that I have a certain level of stress and it's not being met within this space. So naturally is going to cause me to just internalize things, versus us going to you and being vocal.

Sam: 19:56

So what's your advice to women pertaining to that my advice to women is Even if you're frustrated about something, you can express your frustration. Just remind the guy that, or say something that shows the guy that you're coming from a good place, because one thing that helped me when we, whenever we had a disagreement or I felt that I wasn't being heard, is when you would express that what I'm desiring you didn't come from. So we've mentioned this before how I come from a more quiet home and your home is more vocal, and that was a problem for me in the beginning, because I felt like you were too too vocal. But when I would express that to you, I kind of I don't remember your exact words and this could just be what I felt, but I felt that you were looking at me like I was soft.

Sam: 20:49

No but that's what I felt, that okay. This is a person who, when she's mad, she says whatever is on her mind, and me I'm like, no, I'm just well again coming from my home this is how it seemed.

Sam: 21:02

I felt that your responses give me the impression that you think I'm weak, mm-hmm. But once you started to explain your upbringing, it gave me a lot of context that it's not that you think I'm weak, it's what you're not familiar to, and I would say context is everything. If a man expresses himself to you, even if you don't agree, even if in the back of your mind you're thinking, wow, you really are a crybaby, which I'm sure this time's where that's warranted Try to understand him. Try to have some kind of balance where, even if you're annoyed with him at the moment, give him a hug, mm-hmm, show him that you're not his Enemy, show him that you're not on the other side pointing and laughing, and even if you do say something that offends him, when you realize that you did Apologize like it's. Something is is as simple as that, you know. Just is just making sure that, as I said in the beginning, whatever he expresses doesn't define him. As long as you do that, I think you're you're gonna be good okay.

Ruth: 22:07

I agree with that, what you just said, and I think we've come a long way, like as you're speaking, I'm just thinking of like different scenarios in my mind, like from years ago compared to now, and we're still a working progress. Right, there's situations that I feel like we still have to work on when it comes to this, but what I've learned with safe spaces is, again, putting your ego aside, and I want to hear from you, now that you've generalized, what advice you would give to women out there.

Sam: 22:36

I want you to provide what has worked thus far as far as you creating a safe space correct, I would say Periodic conversations, where you don't always wait for me to say something, but you'll check in on me periodically. Just you know. Just a simple how are you, what's on your mind? Always saying you believe in me? Because I think that could be the number one thing that guys worry about is just their spouse losing faith in them that they can actually do whatever it is that they said they're going to do.

Sam: 23:10

I would also say you trying to understand meaning if I'm expressing something about, you know work and it sounds like it's a foreign language to you. I always appreciate that you take the time to listen and try to understand and, at times, provide feedback. But I would also say, too, everything that we've learned together has given me the confidence to be able to express myself and not fear what's going to come back at me. So that has also really helped me and I would definitely give advice out there that it's not just about the person receiving it. You know you always have to do your own work to be able to get to a place where you can express yourself and not worry about what the other person might say.

Sam: 23:56

Absolutely, so there's been times where I might express myself and you totally disagree, or you unlawingly give a reaction that I'm not a fan of or I don't appreciate, and it doesn't bother me because I'm thinking okay, I wanted to get this off my chest and sometimes I could tell in advance when it's going to be about something that you may look at me sideways about and say huh. So I might even start the conversation by saying I know you're going to be confused or I know you may not care, but this is what's on my mind and I just wanted to say that out loud. So doing the self-work and you creating an environment where you understand when to give feedback and when to just be a listening ear has definitely been a great game changer. Okay, that's good to hear.

Ruth: 24:40

And that's pretty much what safe spaces are providing an environment where the person can discuss difficult conversations, but it feels somewhat easier Not saying that it is completely easy, but it feels easier. That sense of relief after having the conversation is what you want to aim for, in my opinion, because, again, two individuals, two different backgrounds, two different comprehensions, two different genders, two completely different experiences, so we're never going to fully understand each other the way that we understand it. But the goal is to, like you said, self-reflect and be self-aware and then, as a spouse, put your ego aside and be willing to listen attentively. And I think I mentioned this before. But the trick is asking the person after they've finished expressing is this something that you just wanted to vent about and get off your chest or is this something you want my feedback or my opinion on Asking? That simple question can eliminate so much confusion, many arguments, as long as both individuals know where they stand in that moment. As human beings, we have the natural need to connect with someone and, again, it doesn't have to be a spouse, but we have that need, we need to vocalize. That's why so many people need therapy, honestly, because we really have internalized so much emotions that you don't even recognize when that joint is abnormal because it's been considered normal for so long.

Ruth: 26:13

So my goal with this conversation is to help people understand that it's not going to be perfect. You're not going to find the perfect answer. It takes work on both parts. As the person providing a safe space for their significant other, you have to do self-work as well. And the person who's seeking to be vulnerable, they need to do self-work. And then, as you're both doing the self-work and serving one another, you naturally will start to improve in understanding that person. You'll naturally start to improve in your reactions. It may take time, depending on the person and depending how you know you correlate with one another or your background. But the point is, as long as there is progression and both individuals are willing to put in the work, not giving up on each other, not giving up on themselves, because I think sometimes we give up on ourselves where, because we didn't get the response we want, we then shut down from everybody rather than that particular person who made us feel the type of way. So I think it's important for women to understand that the way men are built.

Ruth: 27:16

Make sure you have respect when having those conversations. Make sure you don't overstep boundaries out of frustration or confusion. Be self-aware in the moment. Put your ego aside. I said that like 10 times because that really is what helped me.

Ruth: 27:31

There's times where I have an opinion, there's times where I don't get it. There's times where I look at you kind of like huh, but I always tell myself now, when I'm talking to someone, as they're expressing themselves, no matter how I feel or what I think about the particular topic or those emotions, this person is feeling it and who am I to tell them what to feel? I haven't walked their walk of life, so that's their emotion. It's my job as a loved one to validate those emotions, to let them know that they're not crazy for feeling it. Because we do that right. We make people feel like they're crazy for feeling what they're feeling. No, you're entitled to have your emotions. So, validating those emotions by saying I don't understand what you're going through, but I can only imagine how difficult it is Having those conversations regularly and not waiting for the moment where it's too late Having in-depth conversations.

Ruth: 28:24

I'm really passionate about incorporating deep-rooted conversations. That allows you to recognize some of your toxic traits and bad habits and learned behavior that is triggering your partner or those around you, or even triggering yourself sometimes. So little things like that, I think, will naturally help in progressing when it comes to creating a safe space for your loved ones and also creating a safe space for you, because I really believe that in a relationship, when your husband opens up to you and you see a certain part of him, if you truly love him, you'll grow more in love with him. After that fact, and having that grace and understanding of where he's coming from, what his background is, what triggers him, will then help you grow as his spouse to know when to step in and when to step out, when to say something and when not to say it, and that, naturally, will also help you to become more vulnerable with him when you see him open up. Yes, I love that we focus so much on the male's perspective, which I had a feeling was going to happen, but I felt like we couldn't just give generalized statements. I wanted us to have an in-depth conversation about it. So now that we've finalized on how to create safe spaces for men, it's only right that we discuss how to do the same but for women. So there will be a part three where we focus on the woman's perspective and we try to understand each other and support one another as society tries to create differences and separation within relationships and genders. I really feel like creating a safe space will allow us to continue creating unity within relationships and black households.

Ruth: 30:11

So we'll see you here again next week, same time, discussing safe spaces for women. Thank you for spending your time with us. We hope you gain some knowledge today that'll promote poise in your life. We have new episodes uploaded every Thursday, right here, same place, same time. Until next time, you can follow us on Instagram at NoirPoisePodcast to stay connected. That's N-O-I-R-P-O-I-S-E-D podcast. We'd love to hear your feedback.

Sam: 30:42

And remember your wisdom is power.